Today's Lesson - Why You Can't Argue With Twitards, Part Two

Last time I gave you the first installment of logic fail courtesy of the Twilight fan known as 'V. Karim'. She'd been busying herself defending the books on the comments page of an Amazon review which (hilariously and aptly) pointed out how crap they were. Every time a fellow reader with a brain came along to comment on the review and give the reviewer a pat on the back, V. Karim would pop out of the woodwork to say how awesome Twilight is, as if it was her personal mission to defend Meyer. Now, to be fair - she is NOT saying the books are flawless, but she is repeatedly arguing for how Edward is the perfect moral gentleman and how Bella is a strong heroine. She's also saying that young men and boys could learn a lot from being like Edward...and that's where I just had to step in and say HELL NO.

But why can't you just let her be? If she enjoys Twilight that's up to her. It certainly is, but she's not letting the people who don't enjoy Twilight be. She started the debate, not me.

Here's my reply, unedited, from Amazon.com. Additional comments (only posted here) are in bold.

'V. Karim - are you KIDDING me? Stephen King jealous of Stephenie Meyer?? Stephen King has been consistently in the bestseller charts for almost 40 years. FORTY YEARS. No-one will be reading Meyer in 2050, I can assure you that. Stephen King is the man not only behind horror classics such as The Shining, but also behind Stand By Me, The Shawshank Redemption and The Green Mile. Beautiful, passionate, hope-inspiring tales of humanity.' (Yeah, all right, I was having a fangirl rant in defence of my favourite author, but can you blame me?!). 'What has Meyer written? Tween girl fantasies about a sparkly vampire without fangs who doesn't bite people. Yeah. I can see why he's jealous. Pfft.

'I think you're confusing "having a legitimate critical opinion about another author" with 'jealous'. And Edward RESPECTS Bella? Did we read the same books? He bosses her around, treats her like a child, ignores half of what she says because he's the big strong man and therefore MUST know better than the silly irrational little woman, removes the engine from her friggin car to stop her seeing her friends, and is generally a condescending douche by treating her like an intellectual inferior. Oh, and stalking the girl you just met and breaking into her bedroom to watch her sleep is such a sign of respect. (Not that Bella merits respect - she's a sneering, mindless drip who needs a man to live). But anyways, these books suck butt, and more readers need to wake up and realise how crap, boring, and utterly offensive to women (and vampire mythology, and YA literature as a whole) they are. Loved the review.'

V Karim's reply to this -

'We just see things differently. And yes Stephen King is jealous.'

Notice she doesn't say what he's jealous of, because there is nothing. Seriously, give me one trait of Meyer's that Stephen King should be jealous of. Go on. I'm waiting.

'You cannot put other people down without having some sort of inferiority complex.'

Aww. Did that mean ol' bully Mr King hurt Meyer's poor ickle feelings?! For Christ's sake, she's an author. A professional. She supposed to be able to take criticism without screaming 'waah you're just JELLUS!' What's hilarious is that she's so pathetic her fans have started doing it on her behalf.

King wasn't 'putting her down'. He was asked his opinion on her work compared to Rowling, and he gave an honest answer. He wasn't screaming 'SHE SUCKS!' through a megaphone for no reason. And once more, with feeling:-

HAVING A NEGATIVE OPINION OF SOMETHING DOES NOT AUTOMATICALLY MEAN YOU ARE JEALOUS OF IT!

'His criticism was not constructive. It was distasteful.'

He said, and I quote 'She can't write worth a darn. She's just not very good. ' That's not distasteful - it's [S]true[/S] pretty bloody polite compared to what I could say about her.

'I have read a lot of Stephen King. I like his works - yet they aren't all riveting and perfect. I do think that Meyers Twilight Saga is extremely flawed. But I do not come away with your perspective regarding the relationship between Edward and Bella. You are peering into this with an alternate position than myself and many others.'

It's called the feminist viewpoint, love. You know, the radical ideology that sees women as people, rather than just sandwich dispensers?

'This is your opinion and your viewpoint.'

No. 'Edward is a douchebag' is my opinion. The EXAMPLES FROM THE BOOK I gave about how and why he is a douchebag - such as the disabling of Bella's car and the frequent jokes about her being stupid - that was all fact. Notice how V.Karim happily ignores all of that .

'In my opinion the story itself is imaginative, gripping and literary.'

Literary?! Edward's 'incandescent chest' and 'scintillating arms' say hello.

'I do think her general writing - depiction, description - was terribly inconsistent. I think she sculpted pages and pages of magic only to ruin it in pieces in between. You must know that the story takes place in a transformed world. The same rules in the world as we know it do not necessarily apply in the moody, lushness of Twilight. If you were to transfer these characters behavior into the world as we know it then the psychology plays out differently than it does via Meyers Forks, Washington.'

I've said all I have to say about how ridiculous this is in my last post - I'm not going to repeat myself. Suffice to say yes, the same rules DO apply.

Also I think it is refreshing that Meyers Vampires divert from "Vampire tradition" if there is such a thing. It is a well traversed mythology. I think it's refreshing and romantic that they do not have fangs and have skin which shimmer in the sunlight. In this world it is compelling that Edward is drawn to Bella in the way that he is. In real life a similar scenario based on human behavior would lose its allure. But it does work in this story. Also this story is not just for 'tweens'. It resonates with people of all ages.'

And yet I've yet to meet an older, educated Twilight fan who will maniacally sing Meyer's praises as a great author and declare Edward the paragon of male virtue. And no, horny, lonely, bored American housewives who haven't heard of feminism DO NOT count.

'I don't think they are offensive to women at all.'

So you're ok with the message that women are useless 'freaks' if they are not capable of bearing children? And the message that education should take second place to marrying a hot rich guy? And that women should know their place in the kitchen while the men sit around cleaning their guns and playing sports? And the message that you're a raging slut if you ever dated anyone before you met your One Twoo Love? And the message that whatever you say will be ingored because the men know better? And the message that...oh God, I'm suddenly exhausted.

'I think it's a good guideline for boys and men actually.'

Jesus Christ in a sidecar, she did not just write that. SHE DID NOT JUST WRITE THAT.

Your stupidity is giving Godzilla a headache.

NO NO NO NO. This is what is so fucking dangerous about these books being read by young people - especially young people who don't have a strong, intelligent figure in their lives to point out how screwed up Meyer's morals are. It is NOT good to teach boys to treat their girlfriends like dimwitted, irrational, fragile little chattels, and it is NOT good to teach girls that that's how they should be treated.

Remember the good old days, when girls wanted to be like Buffy Summers instead of Bella Swan?

'I think we are all discerning enough to draw out what transfers well into our world and leave the rest behind in the moody world of Forks.'


That's convenient. So when it suits you to compare Twilight to real life, you do, but when it comes to Edward stalking Bella, that's ok because stalking controlling douchebaggy behaviour isn't creepy in a fantasy world because the rules of our world don't apply at all!!

'There is much magic here and it isn't all a black and white literal translation of story and text. There's a lot of delicious blurs which seep, bleed, drip and pour betwixt the lines.'

Blurs, otherwise known as inconsistent writing and frequent contradictions. Not to mention the 'my vampires are based on science!1!' epic fail.

'It leaves one a bit heady and drenched with ardor and blushy restlessness.'

It left me angry, nauseous and bored, but each to their own.

'Does her errant writing ruin it for me when she veers off track and punches you with rows and rows of horrible dialogue and description? Yes it makes me hurl the books at the wall. But just like a bubbling pot of custard, it's the rich layer of sweet fat which surfaces at the top that I choose to drink in.'

She chooses to read a book that makes her want to throw it at the wall. I...just give up, at this point.

'The rest doesn't hold enough substance for me. But it's a good story'

What story would that be? I read 4 tomes of this crap and I didn't come across a scrap of plot other than 'boy meets girl and they fall in love despite contrived peril which is soon over'. THAT ISN'T A STORY.

'and it takes you under like a good pour of Grand Marnier- slow slips of swoon.'

You'll certainly need a drink after reading that drivel.

'I just wish I had been her editor. So cheers. We will just have to agree to disagree. Thanks for writing and I respect your opinion.'

It's nice that she's polite, but again, only half of what I said was opinion. The other half was fact - things that Edward actually DOES to Bella in the books. She did not address any of those in her reply - a frequent trait of Twilight fans, because they know that when we start showing them actual examples from the book, their argument runs out, and they can't stand it. It's like:

Me: Edward controls Bella.
Them: That's your opinion.
Me: What about him 'ordering' her not to see her friends?
Them: That's for her own good.
Me: However Edward tries to justify it, it's still a controlling and bullying behaviour for a boyfriend to tell his girlfriend who she can and cannot see and threaten her when she 'disobeys' him.
Them: *shuffling their feet* Well, that's just your opinion. I think it's sexy and romantic.
Me: *brain hemorrhage*

Lesson learned - this is why you can't argue with Twitards. Even the courteous ones just don't listen to reason.